‘The Fact You Can’t Say It In Public is Quite Disturbing!’ Rand Paul Battles Moderna CEO Over Vaccine Safety

Republican Sen. Rand Paul battled Moderna CEO Stéphane Bancel over the safety of its vaccine and the incidence of myocarditis after receiving boosters during a contentious committee hearing over the company’s price increase for their covid-19 vaccine.

Paul first discussed the price increases and asked about a conflict of interest in people who recommend additional boosters also profiting from the sale before moving on to his question about the risk to young males in taking the vaccine boosters.

He asked Bancel whether there is a higher incidence of myocarditis “among adolescent males 16 to 24” who take the vaccine.

As Bancel began to say how seriously his company takes safety and how closely they work with the CDC, Paul interrupted and said, “Pretty much a yes or no.”

“Is there a higher incidence of myocarditis among boys, 16 to 24, after they take your vaccine?” he asked.

Bancel replied that the “data” he’s seen shows “there’s less myocarditis for people who get the vaccine versus who gets covid infection.”

“You’re saying that for ages 16 to 24, among males who take the covid vaccine, their risk of myocarditis is less than people who get the disease?” Paul asked.

When Bancel responded affirmatively, Paul called him out.

“That is not true,” said Paul. “I’d like to enter into the record six peer reviewed papers from the Journal of Vaccine, the Annals of Medicine that say the complete opposite of what you say. I also spoke with your president just last week, and he readily acknowledged in private that, yes, there is an increased risk of myocarditis.”

“The fact that you can’t say it in public is quite disturbing,” said Paul.

The back and forth continued, with Paul again saying that Moderna president Stephen Hoge acknowledged this privately last week.

Paul also said that the American public isn’t going to allow their kids to be forced to take the boosters by the school system.

PAUL: Is there a higher interest or a higher incidence of myocarditis among adolescent males 16 to 24 after taking your vaccine?

BANCEL: So thank you for the questions, Senator. First, let me say we care deeply about safety and we are working closely with the CDC and the FDA to…

PAUL: Pretty much a yes or no. Is there a higher incidence of myocarditis among boys, 16 to 24, after they take your vaccine?

BANCEL: The data have shown actually, I’ve seen sorry from the CDC actually, showing that there’s less myocarditis for people who get the vaccine versus who gets covid infection.

PAUL: You’re saying that for ages 16 to 24, among males who take the covid vaccine, their risk of myocarditis is less than people who get the disease?

BANCEL: That is my understanding, Senator…

PAUL: That is not true. And I’d like to enter into the record six peer reviewed papers from the Journal of Vaccine, the Annals of Medicine that say the complete opposite of what you say. I also spoke with your president just last week, and he readily acknowledged in private that, yes, there is an increased risk of myocarditis. The fact that you can’t say it in public is quite disturbing. Do you think it’s scientifically sound to mandate three vaccines for adolescent boys?

BANCEL: This is for the public health leaders to decide, Senator.

PAUL: You’ve been advocating for it. You’ve been interviewed and you’ve been advocating for boosters. Do you know when the myocarditis is most common among these adolescent boys? After the second dose. When I spoke with your president, he readily acknowledged in private, yeah, that maybe there ought to be a discussion whether we ought to have one vaccine versus two versus three.

If 90% of the myocarditis comes after the second dose, why don’t we have a rational discussion about one? Marty Makary, a physician from Johns-Hopkins, has said exactly the same thing. It’s been discussed, and yet we have this ridiculous notion from the CDC. So the CDC says and I’ll ask you this question, let’s start it as a question.

Your sixteen-year-old’s had covid. Your 16-year-old gets better and now has recovered from covid. You vaccinate them and they get myocarditis. Are you going to give them two more vaccines, your child, give him two more vaccines?

BANCEL: I’m not a clinician. I would have to discuss —

PAUL: You have children.

BANCEL: I do.

PAUL: Have you vaccinated your children?

BANCEL: I have.

PAUL: How many times?

BANCEL: Three or four times.

PAUL: Three or four times. We follow the CDC recommends this. And, you know, you’re obviously someone who’s self interested in the outcome here. But the CDC says that if you’re a 15, 16 year old, gets covid, recovers, takes a vaccine and gets myocarditis, is hospitalized with elevated heart enzymes, and is very sick, the CDC says, as soon as he gets better, vaccinate him again.

Do you know how many American parents think that that’s a rational, reasonable thing to do? Do you know how many countries don’t do this for children? Sweden doesn’t offer the vaccine for kids under 12 unless they’re at risk for severe disease. And I agree with that. I’m not saying never on any of this. I think it’s a very reasonable position to say kids at risk or have some diseases that there may be a reason for vaccinating some children.

Finland doesn’t recommend it for under 12 months. Norway also. England as well. France, Poland, Germany, Switzerland, and all vaccinate 12 and up. So we’ve got half the world who have looked at these studies. There’s a study in Israel of thousands of patients, and yet you sit here and act as if you’ve never heard of myocarditis and you don’t think it’s an increased risk for young adolescent males when all of the studies who isolate out people by age have found that, yes, there’s an increased risk after taking your vaccine. Pfizer, too, but worse with Moderna.

BANCEL: There’s an increased risk, Senator, I was comparing it to somebody who gets covid.

PAUL: Well, that’s also not true either. But there is an increased risk of getting it. But even they compared to the disease, there are many papers out there who do, that do show that there’s more of a risk of myocarditis after vaccination. So you have to weigh the risks and balances. And you are right, you’re going to make less money. Because you’re going to try, they’re already trying, the CDC has got it on their schedules.

They’re going to try to force all the kids in America to do this through school. But guess what? Parents aren’t going to do it. They’ve seen that covid is not deadly in children. And you’re right, it’s become less deadly over time. Your market’s going down. So you aren’t going to make as much money.

I’m all for you making money in an honest way. But I don’t like the idea that the people making the decisions in government are also receiving money and are now conflicted in their interest.

Independent Senator Bernie Sanders also battled the CEO over the vaccines, hammering the company for the price hike in light of stock buybacks and profits.

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