Deborah Meaden: ‘There is a Dragons’ WhatsApp chat. But we don’t ping each other cat videos!’

Deborah Meaden, 63, was born in Somerset and left school at 16 to study at business college. She set up her first company aged just 19. At 29, she joined the family business, Weststar Holidays, before leading a management buyout a decade later. She now has an estimated net worth of £40m and is a full-time investor with a wide-ranging portfolio but a particular passion for sustainability. She’s best known as a panellist on BBC One series Dragons’ Den.

Dragons’ Den is back for its 20th series. What’s the secret of its longevity?
It’s one of those rare programmes that all generations can watch and have a view, from young kids who like the inventions, through to great-grandparents who like the human stories. We’re a nation of entrepreneurs. Everybody’s got a good idea so they watch the show thinking: “I could do that.” It’s an inspiring show that turns business from this dull, grey thing into something creative, opportunistic and fun to be in.

Is there a new generation of entrepreneurs who grew up watching the show?
Definitely. It’s actually quite scary. Even Sara [Davies, one of the Dragons] in the Den was watching Peter Jones and me when she was a teenager. I’m like, “Oh, please don’t say that!” Young people come up to me in the street and say: “You’ve inspired me” and I’m often surprised by the age gap between us.

Do you get approached on the street much?
A lot! Although I’ve never invested in a business when somebody’s just wandered up (laughs). I’m not saying it’s the best way to pitch to me, but I don’t mind it. I’m happy to talk about what I love.

Do the Dragons stay in touch between series? Is there a Dragons WhatsApp chat?
There is, actually. But we don’t ping each other cat videos! Peter [Jones] and I have many businesses together, so we have a lot of contact. We’ll dip in and out with all the other Dragons as well.

Fourteen Dragons have come and gone over the years. Who do you miss the most?
Probably Theo Paphitis. When I first joined, I sat between Peter and Theo and they tested me. I remember a few times thinking: “If I blink now, I’m done for!” Theo’s a tough man, but a good man. Our paths still cross. Sarah Willingham became a good friend and I still see [Moonpig founder] Nick Jenkins, so I don’t have to miss them.

You’ve often been the only female Dragon. Was that challenging?
I don’t see myself as a female dragon. In business, the consumer isn’t interested in your gender. They’re interested in whether you’ve got a good product or offer a good service.

How many businesses have you invested in over the years and have you made a profit?
More than 100 at about £5.5m. I’m definitely on the upside. The very first business I ever invested in on the show, I’m still involved with. It’s returned all of my money and I get a regular dividend. Of course, not all businesses work out. Besides, the big money is often made at an exit. I’ve got three or four real stars that are multinationals turning over millions of pounds, so those exits will be big. Things like the Sunday Times rich list are nonsense. You can be a billionaire one day and bankrupt the next, as we’ve seen with all the bitcoin guys. Until you sell your business, you don’t truly know what it’s worth.

Are there still businesses that you regret not investing in?
I’m not a regret kind of girl. There’s always going to be another opportunity. Too many people beat themselves up when they get things wrong. They carry a big sack of regret and guilt on their shoulders, hauling it around for the rest of their lives. Get rid of the sack and get on with it!

You’re billed as the Den’s “sustainability champion” and co-host 5 Live’s The Big Green Money Show. Is that a longstanding passion?
I went to business college in Brighton – well, I rarely attended to be fair, I just had a ball and popped into college occasionally – but my thesis was on climate change. That was in the 1970s, so I’ve always been very aware of it but honestly thought it was an issue for future generations. I never imagined we’d be experiencing it right now.

Didn’t the Dragons used to call you “Swampy”?
Ha, yes. Theo called me Swampy. Why thank you, Theo. Is it the way I look or what I’m talking about? But to be fair, that was nearly 17 years ago when environmental issues weren’t commonly discussed. Now everybody in the Den talks about sustainability, which pleases me. Whether it’s greenwashing, I guess that’s my job to find out.

Are you optimistic about the future?
I’m an entrepreneur, so of course I’m optimistic. We have to be hopeful because if we aren’t, we’ll just give up. Human beings are amazing when we put our minds to something. If we decide to sort this, we can. The question is, can we do it in time? That’s why, however tiny my voice is, I want to keep the pressure up. Sometimes humans have to go to the precipice and look over the edge before they think, “Woah, hold on a minute”.

Has Dragons’ Den been good for British business?
I think so. When I first started, I’d never been on TV before and allowed them to dress me in a pinstriped suit and my hair was very sharp. Once I learned the ropes, I was like: “Guys, we don’t do that in business. I don’t wear a pinstriped suit every day and don’t own a briefcase.” Business has changed and the show played a part in that. I’d like to think we’ve shattered a few myths and shown that you can have fun. I’ve got a lot of laughter lines and I’m proud of them. Take us Dragons – we all look different, which proves you don’t have to be of a type. There’s entrepreneurs in most of us.

Do you rate other TV business shows?
I know what you’re asking. Well, if you look at the candidates on The Apprentice, they are pretty wide-ranging. But I do think it’s a very different type of show now. I’d say it’s an entertainment show with some business, whereas Dragons’ Den is a business show with some entertainment.

Do you ever wish you weren’t called Dragons?
Not at all (laughs). It gives people the opportunity to call me an old Dragon, which they always enjoy.

Do you think Brexit is harmful for business?
It’s not that I think that. It just is. Very, very few businesses are benefiting from it. I’ve seen too much harm and honestly, it upsets me. It breaks my heart when I see SMEs [small to medium-size enterprises] with fundamentally good businesses struggling. Entrepreneurs find a way over it or around challenges. But Brexit was just a wall that was put up and it wasn’t their fault. Bang! Now you’ve got this whole set of problems. On top of Covid and the cost of living crisis, businesses are rolling with too many punches at present.

What do you make of Rishi Sunak?
He’s a voice of calm and we certainly needed that. But whoever is in power right now is going to have a difficult time. It’s hard to separate somebody’s qualities from the tsunami of issues they need to deal with. Even [Tory MP] Charlie Walker has said it’s time for a change of government. I think that’s true. They need to get out and get themselves sorted.

Have you ever been offered a government role?
I’ve been approached, but I’m not interested. I wouldn’t last two seconds flat. The first time they tried to three-line-whip me, I’d be out, because I’m not capable of going along with stuff that I fundamentally disagree with. I’d be a terrible politician but I do think I have an important role to play commentating. I have no axe to grind. I’m apolitical. All I’m interested in is who’s making sense. I can only do that from outside, not from inside.

What’s is in the pipeline for you?
I’m writing a children’s book about money. It’s for five- to 11-year-olds, just to introduce them to things like interest and savings, but in an exciting way, to stop it being this dry subject.

Will you ever retire?
I doubt it. I did retire for a week, then my husband said: “Can you stop rearranging the furniture? Go out and do something, because this is driving me mad.” I quickly realised that I love business so much – why stop? At the moment, my work-life balance is great, so I’ll carry on.

How do you relax when you’re not working?
I ride horses, walk the dogs, look at the lovely views and kick my way through the mist. Nature is what keeps me grounded. And if our diaries allow, I dance for a couple of hours per week with my husband, Paul. While I was doing Strictly a decade ago, he took secret lessons so we could dance together after I was knocked out, which was a lovely, romantic thing to do. We went to Buenos Aires and did the Argentine tango. It’s great for fitness and your core.

Is money the key to happiness?
No. That’s easy to say when you’ve got money. Certainly money makes your life easier and relieves a lot of the pressures. But I know a lot of miserable wealthy people. Money can be a great source of unhappiness if you don’t treat it in the right way and do positive things with it.

What’s your most thrifty habit?
It’s so much to do with the environment but we only switched our heating on in mid-December because it was -5C. We held out for a long time! I’m an absolute nightmare. I go around the house switching all the lights off. I also buy secondhand clothes. People do double-takes when they see me in charity shops.

What’s your biggest extravagance?
Animals, without a doubt. We are fortunate enough to have the space to rescue animals if people need them rehomed. We feed them and pay the vet’s bills. We’ve got quite the menagerie: cats, dogs, horses, pigs, sheep and numerous birds, including two very angry geese.

What are the geese so angry about? Goodness knows – they live the life of blinking Riley!